Why do we need military style firearms?

[Nerdwithguns]

I keep hearing this asked by the left now. We need only look back at recent history to get the answer.
On April 1 1946 American citizens in Tennessee found a need for military style weapons to defend their voting rights. The incident came to be know as The Battle of Athens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncdXfUA ... 9&index=74

 

[Midnight Raver]

Wow, I had never known about this before. Small wonder they were known as our greatest generation. Thank you very much for helping further my education!!!

 

[mark_b]

incredible - I have never even heard of this before either. This should be taught in every school room across the country on why our forefathers wanted us to keep our freedom and independence.

thanks for sharing

 

[Tigerstripe]

ive heard of it.

problem is it will have to happen again, in some sort for all the sheeple to hear about it or rather to understand. or we just give up and begin to graze on the cool-aid.

 

[fiundagner]

The problem with anything like that happening ever again in that under current laws the actions taken by those veterans would constitute terrorism. And in today?s worlds of sound bite, do you think the media that will inevitably descend on such an event would take time to listen to and understand the action of the veterans, or would they listen to the "duly elected" government officials who call it terrorism?

We have a government that gets caught running guns to the most violent criminals in the worked, and doesn?t have anything happen. Our ?law enforcement? agencies label veterans and anyone who has more than 2 weeks worth of food on hand as potential terrorists. Our government signs laws into effect that throw the 4th amendment out the window (NDAA), they abandon our diplomats in foreign countries without security, in what looks like suspiciously similar circumstances and then admits to telling their representatives to lie about what happened and why, or doesn?t even bother to show up (we're looking at you HRC) for the hearings. We have elected representatives that openly state they want to round up your guns (Pelosi) and limit what you can eat and how much of it you are allowed (Bloomberg), and a president who says he wants to take what you have and give it to someone else to "be more fair", who rules through executive order when he can?t force what he wants through congress and the senate. You think they would hesitate. All of these issues are bigger than what happened in the Athens rebellion, but you can?t get people to put down their dancing with the stars long enough to pay attention.

OK. Rant over for the moment. I needed to get that out. Thanks.

 

[C_Carson]

The problem with anything like that happening ever again in that under current laws the actions taken by those veterans would constitute terrorism. And in today?s worlds of sound bite, do you think the media that will inevitably descend on such an event would take time to listen to and understand the action of the veterans, or would they listen to the "duly elected" government officials who call it terrorism?

We have a government that gets caught running guns to the most violent criminals in the worked, and doesn?t have anything happen. Our ?law enforcement? agencies label veterans and anyone who has more than 2 weeks worth of food on hand as potential terrorists. Our government signs laws into effect that throw the 4th amendment out the window (NDAA), they abandon our diplomats in foreign countries without security, in what looks like suspiciously similar circumstances and then admits to telling their representatives to lie about what happened and why, or doesn?t even bother to show up (we're looking at you HRC) for the hearings. We have elected representatives that openly state they want to round up your guns (Pelosi) and limit what you can eat and how much of it you are allowed (Bloomberg), and a president who says he wants to take what you have and give it to someone else to "be more fair", who rules through executive order when he can?t force what he wants through congress and the senate. You think they would hesitate. All of these issues are bigger than what happened in the Athens rebellion, but you can?t get people to put down their dancing with the stars long enough to pay attention.

OK. Rant over for the moment. I needed to get that out. Thanks.

Well said.

My answer to the OP is that it is a question based on a false premise. Do we as a society only possess things we NEED? Is one person's need the same as his neighbors? How do we define such a thing, or do we simply lump everyone and their individual circumstances into one size fits all category?

If anyone would answer that in the affirmative, I would respond they need to give up all but 2 pairs of shoes, their apple electronics, that cruise ship vacation, cigarettes, and anything else not NEEDED.

 

[TheGriff]

They can give up their car too. See how they change their story then...

 

[John Canuck]

Why does one need a military style vehicle? Those dangerous cars with four wheels, big engines, surrounded by glass and steel, enough seats to transport numerous criminals from baby murder to bank robbery at speeds far exceeding what is necessary.

It's time that only the police and military had military styled vehicles. I demand common sense laws that limit the speed of cars to 25 mph, no more than two passengers, and open bodied so all the contents can be seen. Anyone wishing to have anything more should report to the FBI.

 

[armaborealis]

I have military style firearms because they tend to be good for shooting people who need to be shot in the face.

I have more politically correct answers too but that's the bottom line -- it is hard to beat an AR-15, SIG 556, AK-47 pattern, etc for defensive carbine usage.

 

[bigfutz]

When the 2a was written, those single shot muzzle loaded muskets we keep hearing about were military style weapons. It's now that we as civilians can't get what the military can. Where's my Minigun??? So nix that arguement.

And realize the word "style" refers to the appearance of the weapon, not the function. It's not like Bushmaster is manufacturing M16's to sell in Wal Mart.

 

[Rosea Carpa]

The problem with anything like that happening ever again in that under current laws the actions taken by those veterans would constitute terrorism. And in today?s worlds of sound bite, do you think the media that will inevitably descend on such an event would take time to listen to and understand the action of the veterans, or would they listen to the "duly elected" government officials who call it terrorism?

We have a government that gets caught running guns to the most violent criminals in the worked, and doesn?t have anything happen. Our ?law enforcement? agencies label veterans and anyone who has more than 2 weeks worth of food on hand as potential terrorists. Our government signs laws into effect that throw the 4th amendment out the window (NDAA), they abandon our diplomats in foreign countries without security, in what looks like suspiciously similar circumstances and then admits to telling their representatives to lie about what happened and why, or doesn?t even bother to show up (we're looking at you HRC) for the hearings. We have elected representatives that openly state they want to round up your guns (Pelosi) and limit what you can eat and how much of it you are allowed (Bloomberg), and a president who says he wants to take what you have and give it to someone else to "be more fair", who rules through executive order when he can?t force what he wants through congress and the senate. You think they would hesitate. All of these issues are bigger than what happened in the Athens rebellion, but you can?t get people to put down their dancing with the stars long enough to pay attention.

OK. Rant over for the moment. I needed to get that out. Thanks.

Well said sir well said ...... I bet if they wanted to ban a I phone we would see something!

 

[Tigerstripe]

actually the 2nd ammendment implys that we should have weapons to equal the millitary. machine guns, grenades, cannon, anti aircraft...............ok some will argue those werent around back then but thats what in means.

imagine a war with our military. if we got a foothold we would take anything they had and use it, so we have already been dumbed down, not on equal footing.

 

[armaborealis]

Why do they feel a need to restrict them?

I don't have to justify a need. But, if you're trying to talk to a truly curious fence-sitter, here's some reasons.

- Millions of veterans want guns like the M4s/M16s they used in the service. The M16 has been fielded for five decades so there are a lot of vets who have defended freedom with America's rifle.
- Vets and civilians have appropriated military designs since at least the cowboy days (45-70 gov't round still in use today), WW1 (the now extremely common 30-06 and bolt actions -- many Fudd deer rifles are patterned on Mauser actions which the US actually copied...), WW2/Morea (again the '06 in the M1 Garand), the M1A/M14 (early VIetnam), and now the AR.
- Armalite Model 15s are easy for anyone to use. With an adjustable stock they can fit a small woman or a large man. They are light enough for a smaller person to handle easily.
- Patrol rifles are the #1 rifle of choice for police officers these days. They use them because they are very good for delivering controlled, aimed defensive fire at a bad guy. Civilians like them for this reason as well. They are the rifle of choice for shooting bad people in the thoracic cavity and face.
- The 30 round magazine is excellent for a civilian who grabs their rifle at 3 AM in their underwear to confront multiple heavily armed home invaders. Bad guys often take multiple shots to stop and the home owner in their underoos likely has no reloads, whereas the home invaders brought as much ammo as they wanted.
- The low powered 5.56 round is a great home defense cartridge. Based on FBI testing, it has less lethality after passing through a layer or two of drywall than a handgun or a shotgun buckshot round. It does not recoil very much making it usable by anyone.
- With modern ammunition or an easily swapped barrel (really an upper, but they won't know the difference), they are useful for hunting. Lots of folks out west hunt prairie dogs, coyotes, and other varmints with them and like having a standard capacity magazine for that.
- Because "F You." Refer to sentence number one and two above.

 

[SuperChuck]

I think in the Heller decision, that is addresed a little, or maybe another decision I have skimmed.

In all actuality, the fact is the "Militia" or the "People" are expected to have access to modern, and effective arms. This would include small-arms of the modern, and military styles. It doesn't exclude, it INCLUDES those weapons, because for anyone to step up and be an effective resistance, they need familiarity and aptitude on existing military weapons.

This was aslo brought up in another decision, I think with a sawwed off shotgun, early after the NFA, and they were using the 2A Militia defence to justify owning the shotgun.. I think the defence failed because no experts called to testify considered a sawwed off shotgun an effective military weapon. Hence owning it was not exercising a militia style 2A ownership.


The questions isn't why we should, the question is what law says we shouldn't..

SC

 

[Rosea Carpa]

Why do they feel a need to restrict them?

I don't have to justify a need. But, if you're trying to talk to a truly curious fence-sitter, here's some reasons.

- Millions of veterans want guns like the M4s/M16s they used in the service. The M16 has been fielded for five decades so there are a lot of vets who have defended freedom with America's rifle.
- Vets and civilians have appropriated military designs since at least the cowboy days (45-70 gov't round still in use today), WW1 (the now extremely common 30-06 and bolt actions -- many Fudd deer rifles are patterned on Mauser actions which the US actually copied...), WW2/Morea (again the '06 in the M1 Garand), the M1A/M14 (early VIetnam), and now the AR.
- Armalite Model 15s are easy for anyone to use. With an adjustable stock they can fit a small woman or a large man. They are light enough for a smaller person to handle easily.
- Patrol rifles are the #1 rifle of choice for police officers these days. They use them because they are very good for delivering controlled, aimed defensive fire at a bad guy. Civilians like them for this reason as well. They are the rifle of choice for shooting bad people in the thoracic cavity and face.
- The 30 round magazine is excellent for a civilian who grabs their rifle at 3 AM in their underwear to confront multiple heavily armed home invaders. Bad guys often take multiple shots to stop and the home owner in their underoos likely has no reloads, whereas the home invaders brought as much ammo as they wanted.
- The low powered 5.56 round is a great home defense cartridge. Based on FBI testing, it has less lethality after passing through a layer or two of drywall than a handgun or a shotgun buckshot round. It does not recoil very much making it usable by anyone.
- With modern ammunition or an easily swapped barrel (really an upper, but they won't know the difference), they are useful for hunting. Lots of folks out west hunt prairie dogs, coyotes, and other varmints with them and like having a standard capacity magazine for that.
- Because "F You." Refer to sentence number one and two above.

All good points...... But in a press conference just the other day didnt they say that the .223 was the or one of the most powerful rifle rounds? :roll:

 

[Dave29461]

Yes and Sen Frankenstein said you can turn a knob on the bushmaster and make it easier to shoot rapidly. :roll: :?

 

[Rosea Carpa]

And that is part of the problem.... When the second amendment was made everyone had and used guns..... Today you have people that short of tv or movies have never seen or held a gun so when someone spouts a lie like that they have no idea that it is total B.S.

 

[armaborealis]

I think in the Heller decision, that is addresed a little, or maybe another decision I have skimmed.

In all actuality, the fact is the "Militia" or the "People" are expected to have access to modern, and effective arms. This would include small-arms of the modern, and military styles. It doesn't exclude, it INCLUDES those weapons, because for anyone to step up and be an effective resistance, they need familiarity and aptitude on existing military weapons.

This was aslo brought up in another decision, I think with a sawwed off shotgun, early after the NFA, and they were using the 2A Militia defence to justify owning the shotgun.. I think the defence failed because no experts called to testify considered a sawwed off shotgun an effective military weapon. Hence owning it was not exercising a militia style 2A ownership.


The questions isn't why we should, the question is what law says we shouldn't..

SC

The 2A is the crazy uncle in the attic when it comes to the courts. Logically reading Miller there is more protection for a legit full auto M16 than there is for a Mossberg 500 but that's not the way the courts have interpreted things. Heller should clearly protect firearms in "common usage," and there is no doubt that AR-15s are in common usage given their use in competetive shooting, the quantities produced, and the fact that they're sold everywhere (fricking Wally World has them), but the courts will make up whatever they want to make up... especially if the current POTUS gets another court pick.

I personally feel like Congress should use their militia powers to give me a refundable tax credit for up to $500 of 5.56 or 7.62 NATO ammo and kit for an AR or a M1A every year, but there's no hope from the legislative either -- especially right now (WRITE YOUR REPS).

Depending on the courts to bail us out of this gun grab is like hoping for a hail mary when you're down by 8 points in the 4th quarter.

 

[Rosea Carpa]

I think it is the Swiss that keep the rifle they used in the millitary and at least once a year the government pays for you to go to the range and ammo for you to shoot.

 

[Rosea Carpa]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ufkwTM82e4

Yup