SC CWP Statistics

armaborealis · Mar 4, 2012

I was wondering if anyone had statistics on:
1) How many SC CWPs have been issued (total)
2) How many have been revoked (total)
3) How many of those revocations were for actual violent crimes (as opposed to traffic tickets or technical, non-violent offenses like inadvertently carrying in a forbidden Victim Disarmament Zone)

I was able to find a 2009 article (http://www.thestate.com/2009/11/02/1007 ... ad-up.html) that mentioned nearly 100K permits in circulation. The article mentioned two unlawful shootings by CWP holders, one of which was the Dickey case (he was recently exonerated).

I was able to find a 2007 article (http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0712GUNS) that mentioned 97 permits being revoked in that year. It did not give a breakout of how many were actually violent offenses, though. I'd suspect the vast majority of those 97 revocations were technical or traffic related.

SLED publishes data (http://www.sled.sc.gov/CWPStat.aspx?Men ... eReporting). However, their figures go back only to 2006 and they don't go into reasons for revocations.

Finally, the odious anti-gun VPC publishes a "study" of all CCW shootings (they include legit, good self defense incidents in their "statistics") and found two shootings and a murder-suicide by SC CWP permit holders. I don't link to them because I don't want to help their search engine rankings. I researched two of the three shootings they found and couldn't find a "guilty" conviction in either (both happened in the last two years). The third was a murder suicide (James Mobley) and it appears he did have a permit issued by SLED. I don't know if it was properly issued or not.

It looks like about 0.2% of permits are revoked each year but it would be nice to know what the reasons are! I suspect the vast majority of revocations are non-violent in nature. This seems like good info to use when discussing the issue with friends, families, media, etc -- it is important to highlight how overwhelmingly law abiding and responsible permit holders are.

Thus far the best I've been able to compile:
119340 active permits (current Dec 31, 2010)
963 total revocations from 2006-2010 (per SLED's figures) -- 0.8% or approx 806 per 100,000 permit holders
1 confirmed murder from a permit holder (James Mobley) -- approx 1 murder per 100,000 permit holders
3 possibly unlawful shootings ---- approx 4 possible and confirmed murders per 100,000 permit holder

Compared to...
280 murders per 100,000 residents in the general SC population (FBI crime data)
27,640 violent crimes per 100,000 residents in the general SC population (FBI crime data)

Even if all of the 963 revocations were related to a serious violent crime (something which I really, really doubt), permit holders would still be about 33 times more law abiding than the general public appears to be.

Bob Ouellette · Mar 5, 2012

That's pretty interesting. I wonder if the statistics show the same trend across the nation? I would guess that they do.

armaborealis · Mar 5, 2012

Yes... The trend seems to hold nationwide in just about every state. It is a theme of John Lott's "More Guns, Less Crime" book. When I've run the numbers myself for states where data is easily available, permit holders tend to be 5 to 15 times more law abiding than John Q. Public when it comes to committing violent crimes in most states. Permit holders are WAY less likely to be involved in a serious crime than a member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns.

In most states the majority of permit revocations are for non-violent crimes. I suspect (but have no hard data at this time) that is true of SC's thousand or so revocations too.

bigfutz · Mar 6, 2012

What would be examples of non-violent crimes that would get your CWP revoked?

Dave29461 · Mar 6, 2012

Carrying where prohibited, such as school grounds/buildings.

HOLY DIVER · Mar 6, 2012

The 1 murder happened in my area. And most likely be reduced to man slaughter.

bigfutz · Mar 6, 2012

Re: non-violent crimes. So the crime is related to the permit. Which brings us back to the earlier discussion of the "posted" areas, such as government buildings and (ahem) restaurants. And I'm sure any felony, violent or not, which would prevent you from obtaining a permit would also get one revoked. I wonder how many purchases are perpetrated with a revoked or otherwise invalid permit, since a NICS check is not run if you present a CWP.

John Canuck · Mar 6, 2012

Does revoked mean actually taken? Iow, when someone is converted to a prohibited person for whatever reason, does the permit get physically taken from the person? What of they don't have it with them?

How many purchases with revoked permits are made?

Bob Ouellette · Mar 6, 2012

I could be wrong, but I believe that Trader World in North Charleston still runs the NICS even if you have a CWP.

armaborealis · Mar 6, 2012

bigfutz said:
What would be examples of non-violent crimes that would get your CWP revoked?

Carrying in a gun free zone including the laundry list, properly signed areas, and residences.
SLED issued the permit and shouldn't have (23-31-215 C)
The person becomes prohibited under state law, which generally follows the federal prohibitions (23-31-215 J)
The person moves to another state (23-31-215 J)
The person voluntarily surrenders the permit (23-31-215 J)
The person is charged with a crime that would make them a prohibited person; the permit is reinstated if they are later found not guilty but in the meantime it will register as a revocation (23-31-215 J)

Then when you drill into the state prohibited person laws:

SECTION 16-23-30. Sale or delivery of handgun to and possession by certain persons unlawful; stolen handguns.

(A) It is unlawful for a person to knowingly sell, offer to sell, deliver, lease, rent, barter, exchange, or transport for sale into this State any handgun to:

(1) a person who has been convicted of a crime of violence in any court of the United States, the several states, commonwealths, territories, possessions, or the District of Columbia or who is a fugitive from justice or a habitual drunkard or a drug addict or who has been adjudicated mentally incompetent;

(2) a person who is a member of a subversive organization;

(3) a person under the age of twenty one, but this shall not apply to the issue of handguns to members of the Armed Forces of the United States, active or reserve, National Guard, State Militia, or R. O. T. C., when on duty or training or the temporary loan of handguns for instructions under the immediate supervision of a parent or adult instructor; or

(4) a person who by order of a circuit judge or county court judge of this State has been adjudged unfit to carry or possess a firearm, such adjudication to be made upon application by any police officer, or by any prosecuting officer of this State, or sua sponte, by the court, but a person who is the subject of such an application is entitled to reasonable notice and a proper hearing prior to any such adjudication.

(B) It is unlawful for a person enumerated in subsection (A) to possess or acquire handguns within this State.

(C) A person shall not knowingly buy, sell, transport, pawn, receive, or possess any stolen handgun or one from which the original serial number has been removed or obliterated.

So a simple assault charge in any state with no weapons involved (a crime of violence) could trigger the provision that requires a permit to be revoked even if the person is found not guilty or the charges later dropped. Anecdotally, SLED seems to deny renewals for DWIs/traffic violations (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 98612.html) but I don't know if they revoke based on that.

I'd be interested in finding out how many of the revocations are for actual violent crimes (aggravated assaults, assault with a deadly weapon, etc), how many are procedural but weapons related (entered a Victim Disarmament Zone, for example), how many are for unrelated conduct (traffic violations), and how many are non-punitive (people voluntarily turning in permits or moving). Maybe I need to write to SLED. I think the data will be very favorable to CWP holders and will probably also give insight into verifying that SLED is running the program as intended with "shall issue."