Saiga 12 shotguns

Joker

New Member
I love mine.




Just for the hell of it, this is my current full collection minus a Taurus Tracker in .357 mag 4 inch barrel.

 

Ken

New Member
Wow, enough iron for a small army. I'm a regular on the Saiga-12.com board and I know some of the more enthusiastic owners of this platform will say that the first thing you should do when you get one is "restore" it by moving the trigger forward but personally I don't see it as a "must do" kinda thing. If it runs for you and is comfortable in the import configuration, fine.

I tend to go mod crazy with stuff myself but there's a lot to be said for keeping things simple.
 

fordnut

Active Member
Frost has a slide fire stock on his. He had it at the last Shootzenfest, with the 20 round drum mag. It was running great.

There was a video of it here somewhere...


Steve
 

Joker

New Member
I just want to do a modification to where I can rapidly shoot low brass without any failure to inject issues.
 

Joker

New Member
Its all stock. The only thing I changed on it was the AR style but stock.
I am guessing they sell different gas plugs so I can shoot the low brass stuff?
 

Ken

New Member
Joker said:
Its all stock. The only thing I changed on it was the AR style but stock.
I am guessing they sell different gas plugs so I can shoot the low brass stuff?
You should be able to shoot low brass with the stock plug if everything else is working as it should.
The factory plug has two settings. For simplicity sake one is for low power shells the other for higher power. There are aftermarket plugs that have more settings which allow for fine tuning. The DPH plug shown here http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1407/DPH-Improved-Saiga-12/Detail has 6 settings and another made by MD Arms has 5 settings. The DPH is the one my S-12 came with. Recently I converted to the TAC-47 autoplug based on positive comments I saw from users. You can see it here; http://www.saiga-12.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Auto-Plug

Rather than a number of adjustable settings this plug uses a spring and once set and tuned it never needs to be adjusted when going from one kind of shell to another. Not only does this mean you don't have to dink with changing the plug setting when you go from Wally World bulk shells to high power 00 and slugs, it means you can mix different types of shells in one magazine. I've tried this and it works.

So for my purposes I'm sold on the autoplug. IMO it's well worth the additional cost to never have to make adjustments.

Having said all of this I'll say that if there are other issues going on with your shotgun a different plug won't fix them. First off I'd check to make sure your gas ports are clear. If you take the plug out and remove the puck that sits in front of the piston and look down toward the barrel you should be able to see them. Depending on when the gun was made you may have three or four ports. If it is a four port gun the fourth port may be hard to see as it's tucked under the hole in the gas block, toward the muzzle. You can bend a paper clip and stick in each hole to be sure they are not blocked. If you have a bore light after removing the carrier you can look down the barrel from the muzzle end and actually see the ports and/or see the paper clip sticking through the port. It's not necessary to do this as far as looking in the barrel goes but it's a way to be sure the paper clip is going through the port.

A more drastic measure is actually enlarging the ports but it's a last resort and should be done by someone who's familiar with the process.

You should be sure you're using the correct setting for whatever plug you're using though as the setting for higher powered shells would restrict the amount of gas available to operate the gun. I'd check the ports to be sure they're clear and then ensure you're using the correct setting and see how it works. You could go with another plug but if there's not enough gas getting through the ports a plug won't fix that.
 

Joker

New Member
Thanks for the input. When I first got the gun, I took it out shooting with a box of some low brass birdshot. I only had the 5 round mag that came with it. The first 5 ejected to problem. I loaded it again and it didnt eject the 1st and the 3rd. I took it back to the dealer I bought it from and they told me it needed higher brass shells. So I bought the drum mag from them and took it out again. It failed to eject on the 2nd shot but I was using a higher brass shell this time. After that it had no issue even when it filled it to the full 20. So I figured I just need to keep it with mid-high brass. Does that still sound like I might have to unclog the ports? I rather just do 1 modification and never have to adjust the gas block.

Oh yea it has been on setting number 2 since I bought it and I never changed it.
 

Ken

New Member
My understanding is that with modern components the height of the brass doesn't always mean what it did decades ago when shell hulls were made mainly of paper. Or, you can have a plastic shell with low brass that is just as powerful or "hot" as a shell with higher brass around the base. But generally speaking higher brass does mean a more powerful load. Saigas are designed along military use lines which means they like powerful, high power shells out of the box. They weren't designed for shooting quail.

I'm not sure why it was recommended that you buy a drum magazine as a remedy for this problem. If anything all the drums I know of for Saigas, ProMag and MD Arms won't allow 3" shells or roll crimped European shells like Rio. A stick mag will allow you to shoot pretty much any shell you want up to 3".

There are many of these shotguns that will run anything from Winchester Universal (and the like) to high power buckshot and slugs and everything in between. And often I've seen where an S-12 was finicky in the beginning but as it got broken in it ran much better with fewer FTEs, stovepipes etc. First I would check the gas ports, it's easy to do and doesn't take a lot of time. Because if there's a problem with the ports, nothing else you can do will correct it. I can't find my factory plug with two settings like yours so I can't see how big the #2 setting hole is to compare it with the #6 setting on the DPH plug to tell if it allows as much gas to pass (go ahead, laugh).

Again, the physical height of the brass will not always tell you how powerful the load is but generally speaking more powerful loads do higher brass. But there is no other physical consideration that would make one or the other run better or worse. It's what is inside the shell that matters, not the height of the brass....if that makes any sense.

You can't go wrong IMO getting an autoplug but again, if there are other problems it will not magically correct them. Oh and you might wonder, if there is a plug setting that allow a lower gas producing shell like Wally World birdshot to cycle then why not just set it for that knowing any shell that produces more gas should run ok too right? This would mean that the carrier would slam back violently (or more violently) than is necessary to eject the shell and could damage the trunnion in the rear of the receiver. The point is to have close to the same amount of gas cycling the gun as possible no matter which shell you're shooting. This is the beauty of the autoplug.

I've done a lot of talking here but let me say this, I'm no expert with this stuff. I just know what I've learned since I've been messing with Saigas and reading mainly on the Saiga-12.com board. So if I'm off on any of this whoever knows better please comment. I'm always willing to learn.

Here's a vid showing how the autoplug works and is adjusted;

http://youtu.be/7DIeY5Q2pjs Turn the volume down
 

Tigerstripe

Active Member
low brass is for shootin birds.

i dont allow them in my SBS. it has never fired anything but buck and slugs. 3 inch are a handfull. check the vids of the Boggy Head Shootzenfest. on the second shot (2.75 inch) my pistol hand brushed through my beard. it takes all sizes but i have not collected the stones to try 3.5 inch.
 

Ken

New Member
Tigerstripe said:
low brass is for shootin birds.
Yeah in the best of all worlds (one in which I have a duffle bag full of Benjamins) I'd only shoot high brass stuff and order by the pallet. But as much fun as it is to dump 20 round drums with this gun it adds up fast.

I've recently obtained a Lee melter, slug mold and Load All II to try and convert Winchester Universal to slugs to shoot at Quickshot. And in keeping with my long standing philosophy of "Anything worth doing is worth taking to the extreme" I'll undoubtedly get into full loading and reloading of 12 gauge rounds.

SBSs are the sh**t (not up on the dirty word policy here yet). My second S-12 will have an 18" barrel but the last 5" will be a Molot brake so it will as short as it can be without a tax stamp and an 8 month wait.

I have a nephew getting married around the end of October in NC and I'm hoping I can make the fall shoot and see some of these exotic weapons you guys have.
 

BenMara

Member
It may need to be broken in, i ran 400rds of hibrass. Now it cycles anything, with a stock plug and puck....
Id convert it, but have too much fun shooting it...
 

Joker

New Member
I didn't buy the drum mag to fix the problem, I bought it because 5 rounds at a time was just too slow for me. I wanted to have some fun with it.
 

Ken

New Member
Joker said:
I didn't buy the drum mag to fix the problem, I bought it because 5 rounds at a time was just too slow for me. I wanted to have some fun with it.
10 - 4 I misunderstood.
 

Frost

Active Member
I don't have a slide stock on the Saiga but if y'all want I can bring mine.
I shoot low brass all the time.
It is so soft it is really fun to shoot.
 

Lewisite

New Member
I had planned on looking into buying a premium end converted one with the tax return before all this craziness happened. Looks like I will be waiting another year for prices to normalize, provided the ban does not shot down.
 
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