NFA question

Frost

Active Member
1. I can create a SBS or SBR without the help of a Dealer.
2. I will need the CLEO to approve then must file, pay tax and wait.
3. If I create a SBS or SBR I must engrave my name and address on the receiver.


My primary questions are

1. Where must the engraving be?
2. Can the engraving be small and unobtrusive?
3. Would a SBS or SBR created and labeled by a dealer have a higher resale value than one I did myself?
4. Will I be limited to a single length barrel?
5. What is the typical cost of engraving.
6. Where would one get the engraving done around the Chas area?
 

gators096

Member
I've talked to Henry a few times about this and pretty sure that the overall length of the sbr is recorded, so once it is done it would have to stay that way. He also knows about the engraving, i think he said that the lower would be sent off to be engraved. I would email and ask him. This is my next project as soon as i can free up the funds, an sbr with a suppressor. Hope this helps
 
Frost said:
1. I can create a SBS or SBR without the help of a Dealer.
2. I will need the CLEO to approve then must file, pay tax and wait.
3. If I create a SBS or SBR I must engrave my name and address on the receiver.


My primary questions are

1. Where must the engraving be?
2. Can the engraving be small and unobtrusive?
3. Would a SBS or SBR created and labeled by a dealer have a higher resale value than one I did myself?
4. Will I be limited to a single length barrel?
5. What is the typical cost of engraving.
6. Where would one get the engraving done around the Chas area?
Engraving must be name and city and state of "manufacturer"... if you use your first and last name on your Form 1 then that is what you must list. If you use an LLC or any other corporate name then you must list that.

1. Must be on the receiver of the weapon, as that is the actual "firearm."

2. Must be legible. Size is irrelevant. I would advise against using non-standard script. I.E. use regular font, such as Arial or Tahoma and stay away from Gothic or Cursive.

3. Resale value would be identical unless it was a gun that you actually constructed yourself. For example, an AK SBR would be worth more if assembled from Red Jacket or InRange rather than you doing it yourself in your garage. Due to the hassle of NFA transfers don't expect to be able to resell your gun for what you paid or it unless you have something special, like an SLR-107UR, that can't be imported anymore.

4. Barrel length is irrelevant. Once the weapon is NFA titled it isn't bound by the regular barrel or overall length requirements. A Short Barrel Shotgun can wear any length barrel you want. ( Extra information: If you put a 18" barrel on it then it is no longer an NFA shotgun for the purposes of transporting it across state lines and you won't require a permission slip from the ATF to take it hunting abroad. Same thing with a Short Barrel Rifle. If you have a 7" barreled upper receiver on it all year long but decide to go deer hunting in Colorado you can put a 16" barreled upper receiver on it and fly to Colorado without filing "temporary export of NFA firearm" paperwork with the ATF-NFA Branch. Contact the ATF for clarification if you need more information or would like them to send you a letter.)

5. Gunshops generally charge more for engraving a firearm than a jeweler.

6. Call all jewelry shops and pawn shops and price check them against each other. There are no special requirements for an engraver other than being able to engrave metal.
 
gators096 said:
I've talked to Henry a few times about this and pretty sure that the overall length of the sbr is recorded, so once it is done it would have to stay that way. He also knows about the engraving, i think he said that the lower would be sent off to be engraved. I would email and ask him. This is my next project as soon as i can free up the funds, an sbr with a suppressor. Hope this helps

The overall length and the barrel length of an SBR or SBS is recorded on the Form 1 or Form 4, this is true. The inaccuracy is that the barrel must remain that length forever. You can swap upper receivers on an AR-15 SBR all day long and change the barrel from 4" to 7" to 11" to 14" to 16" to 20" etc. Same thing with a Remington 870 SBS. You can have it with a 12" or 14" barrel for "duty" but put an 18" or 28" barrel on it for hunting whenever you want.

This is my Remington 870 SBS:



This is also my Remington 870 SBS:

 

armedpig

New Member
1. As long as it is on the receiver you are good. I have seen guns where it is easily visible and some where it is not, but it has to be on the receiver. I read one time on the ATF website that it could also be on the barrel, but to be safe I would engrave on the receiver.

2. The engraving has to be a minumiun of 1/16 tall and .003 of an inch deep as required by ATF.

3. That would depend on the gun,the quality, and overall fit and finish when it is done.

4. You can have multiple setups for a receiver such as with an AR. Register the shortest length you will run, and always keep that length setup.
Remember that once the receiver is registered as a SBR, if you change it back to standard configuration you still have a NFA item. Keep that in mind when transporting.

5. Engraving will cost what ever you want to spend. I did mine myself and it didn't cost me anything. It is on a MP5. It is not as pretty as a laser engraver or machine but is covered up by the grip housing. I laid it out with a set of calipers to get the right height and it is engraved deeper than .003. Some trophy shops can do it but call them first before taking a gun in. There are also places on the net that will do them.

6. I can't help you out on this one. Hopefully some one else will chime in on it.

Good luck.
 

Clicker

Member
There is no way I'd value a SBR done by an individual via Form 1 equal to a factory SBR say from Colt or LMT etc.
I don't want to look at someones info on my gun. I'm referring to the AR15 in this case.
Remember a AR15 SBR can be returned to title 1 status.
 

Dave29461

Active Member
They just had an excellent article about building SBRs and Pistols in the Shotgun News this month. Worth a read.
 

HHB Guns

New Member
I have yet to find a jeweler local that can go .003" deep. Mort are surfaced engraved. The best place I have found and they do it in 3 weeks or less is Orion Arms. They do a Jam up job. Basic name and city state is $35 plus $15 return shipping.

Here is my two cents which is direct from the NFA Branch when asked by me. I was told by the chief inspector that if you go SBR on a 10.5" barrel and thats what is says on your form then you are in direct violation if you have a 8" barrel on it. I am not going to argue with anybody. Just telling you what I was told. You can always go longer on barrel length but not shorter than what you listed. Just what I was told. now I cant say which LE guy will know the laws to enforce this but none the less I was told it was wrong. Too take it a step further I was told that machine guns barrel lengths do not matter what so ever. Only SBS and SBR does this apply.

Good luck and call the NFA Direct and get the facts. They always answer my questions. Now whether you get the same answer from two different people is the answer. I will help you any way I can. ATF NFA Branch 1-304-616-4500
 
HHB Guns said:
I have yet to find a jeweler local that can go .003" deep. Mort are surfaced engraved. The best place I have found and they do it in 3 weeks or less is Orion Arms. They do a Jam up job. Basic name and city state is $35 plus $15 return shipping.

Here is my two cents which is direct from the NFA Branch when asked by me. I was told by the chief inspector that if you go SBR on a 10.5" barrel and thats what is says on your form then you are in direct violation if you have a 8" barrel on it. I am not going to argue with anybody. Just telling you what I was told. You can always go longer on barrel length but not shorter than what you listed. Just what I was told. now I cant say which LE guy will know the laws to enforce this but none the less I was told it was wrong. Too take it a step further I was told that machine guns barrel lengths do not matter what so ever. Only SBS and SBR does this apply.

Good luck and call the NFA Direct and get the facts. They always answer my questions. Now whether you get the same answer from two different people is the answer. I will help you any way I can. ATF NFA Branch 1-304-616-4500
So I guess all my next SBR and SBS will reflect a 1" barrel length in the future ;)
 

HHB Guns

New Member
Lol...Call them tomorrow and see what they tell you. Everybody you ask will give you a different interpretation.
 

Frost

Active Member
Lets say I size it with a barrel that is flush with the end of the mag tube just for a number lets say it is 12"

If I correctly understand what I am reading I can go longer than 12 and still be less than 18 with say a 14.
Or
Would my options be 12 and 18+ inches?
 

armedpig

New Member
Alot of people overlook this, but the barrel length is measured from a closed bolt not the distance from the receiver.

As HHB said, and this is how I understand it, you can always go longer but never shorter than your form says.

Also any SBS or SBR can be returned to a title 1 gun. All you need to do is send the ATF a letter requesting that the firearm be removed from the registry. It actually takes longer to do this than it does to get your tax stamp approved.
 

Frost

Active Member
It's actually easy to measure the barrel on an 870.
All you need is a tape measure and a wooden dowel.
With the bolt closed drop the dowel into the barrel and mark the top of the barrel on the dowel.
Measure from the end to the mark and that is how long your barrel is.
Cut off the appropriate amount of material and there ya go.
 

armedpig

New Member
Frost said:
It's actually easy to measure the barrel on an 870.
All you need is a tape measure and a wooden dowel.
With the bolt closed drop the dowel into the barrel and mark the top of the barrel on the dowel.
Measure from the end to the mark and that is how long your barrel is.
Cut off the appropriate amount of material and there ya go.
Thats the easiest way to do it that I know.
 
Top