LEO Interaction while armed

P-1

New Member
very true on pay...but i do not think that some will have an attitude adjustment..some just are seasoned that way.
 

Bob Ouellette

New Member
That sucks. At some point, I'd ask to speak to their supervisor. Sometimes people just don't like being told that their wrong. When my friend still worked there, we were talking about some kids that he'd found, uh, hanging out in the back seat of their car and how he explained to the father of the girl that she's 14, she can date who she wants. A warrant officer (in the National Guard) got really upset that the legal age of consent for anyone 18 and under is 14. I apologize for the nearly unrelated story.
 

Clicker

Member
Bob Ouellette said:
That sucks. At some point, I'd ask to speak to their supervisor. Sometimes people just don't like being told that their wrong.
Trust me I spoke to a superior officer. I just can't post the details of that conversation here.
 

Bob Ouellette

New Member
Unfortunately, I have to drag this topic out again.

Last night I was pulled over a few blocks off America St in Charleston. I pulled out from stop sign and saw a car coming from the right that I wasn't sure had a stop sign or not. I didn't want to cause a crash, so I sped up to get out of the way. After going through a couple more intersections, I saw the flashing blue lights and pulled over and turned the interior light on then waited for the officer to walk up to my window. He asked where I was headed to that I was tearing through the area. I told him that I was going home. I proceeded to tell him that I was carrying a weapon, where it was, and that I had a permit to carry. That is where the similarities between that, and every other traffic stop I've had while carrying end.

I was instructed to keep my hands on the steering wheel while the officer reached across me and removed the gun from my coat pocket and asked about any other weapons. I told him about my pepper spray and my pocket knives and he asked me to step out of my truck, and face my vehicle so he could search me, just to make sure I didn't have any other weapons. He then went into my pocket to get my wallet and ID's. I was then told to wait at the back of my vehicle while he searched it, to make sure I didn't have any other weapons or machine guns inside. After he finished going through all of my stuff, two other officers showed up in an unmarked SUV and stood on either side of me, I suppose in case I was planning on running. After a few minutes, I was given my driver's license (actually my motor cycle beginner's permit) and allowed to return to the cab of my truck to wait. Just after I sat down, one of the two officers that showed up to 'assist' took off running down the street. The driver of the SUV asked the officer that stopped me if he was ok, then he jumped in his vehicle and took off down the street as well. I was finally given my cleared weapon, magazine, and loose round back and told that I was being let off with a warning (he never told me what for) and that he had to go do something else. In his hurry, he forgot to give me back the keys to my truck and almost drove off with the on the roof of his car. This incident is compounding my increasingly negative opinion of the Charleston Police Department. There is no reason that I should be treated like a criminal when I have done nothing but be compliant and respectful.
 

Frost

Active Member
Bob
He sounds like a paranoid rooky.
I have been through a couple of wrecks (both not my fault) and a license check while armed.
I have never had a problem like that.

During the license check I was not questioned about the gun.
In the case of the two wrecks I was asked by the officer (same officer both times) to put the firearm in the trunk "if I did not mind".
I honestly did not mind and did so.

The only one who got upset about the firearms was the guy who hit me the first time.
He kind of freaked out when I pulled them out and put them in the trunk.
I guess people who are armed in Mexico are different...
 

Bob Ouellette

New Member
thebrasilian said:
Bob, Did he actually say machine gun?
He actually said "machine gun." I don't recall if I was the one to bring it up or he was, but he said it a couple of times and all I could say when he asked if I had one was, "I wish."

John Canuck said:
I've been pulled a few times while armed. I've never informed the officer I was armed, and it's never been a problem.
Honestly, it's never been a problem for me either until last night.

Frost said:
Bob
He sounds like a paranoid rooky.
I have been through a couple of wrecks (both not my fault) and a license check while armed.
I have never had a problem like that.

During the license check I was not questioned about the gun.
In the case of the two wrecks I was asked by the officer (same officer both times) to put the firearm in the trunk "if I did not mind".
I honestly did not mind and did so.

The only one who got upset about the firearms was the guy who hit me the first time.
He kind of freaked out when I pulled them out and put them in the trunk.
I guess people who are armed in Mexico are different...
Frost, if he was that paranoid, I have no idea why he would put his arms through a vehicle window, across someone's body and under their arms to retrieve a weapon. Had I been anyone other than the law abiding citizen I am, that would be the perfect opportunity to attack the officer and have an advantage.

I was pulled over another time and the deputy asked if I would place it in the bed of my truck and I did. However, to search my car for a machine gun or anything else, after I've been compliant and told the officer everything that I had and its location, is completely out of line and a violation of my rights.
 

Clicker

Member
You've been profiled! Yup at night near America Street they were grasping at straws.

Now on a serious note never give them permission to search you or your vehicle - period. I'm not silly enough to think that the cop will simply say "dang it" and give up the quest when you refuse him access but you have to make him work hard for it.

They will fabricate "probable cause" and conduct the search in the end. However they will know that I didn't simply roll over and let 'em have at it.
 

Bob Ouellette

New Member
Clicker said:
You've been profiled! Yup at night near America Street they were grasping at straws.

Now on a serious note never give them permission to search you or your vehicle - period. I'm not silly enough to think that the cop will simply say "dang it" and give up the quest when you refuse him access but you have to make him work hard for it.

They will fabricate "probable cause" and conduct the search in the end. However they will know that I didn't simply roll over and let 'em have at it.
I was never asked for permission to either remove my gun or to search my person or my vehicle. I was never given any cause whatsoever. The more I think about it, the more it bothers me.
 

Clicker

Member
It should bother you, it sure would me. I think any normal person would be upset the more they thought about it.

Personally I believe LEO's try to bum rush people with their search tactics in that they inundate you with questions all at once and before you realize it they are into your vehicle conducting a search. Thirty seconds later you're standing there wondering what the hell is going on and they are practically done, it's too late to voice an objection now.

Remember these cops do this every day, we ordinary folk are rarely involved in these situations so it's normal to feel intimidated and nervous. The bright side of all this is that is you'll be mentally prepared the next time. So practice your line in front of the mirror: "No officer I do not consent to a search, am I free to go?" Take a deep breath and stand your ground while being calm and polite. Just don't make it easy for them cause they'll take advantage of you when given the chance.
 

thebrasilian

New Member
John Canuck said:
I've been pulled a few times while armed. I've never informed the officer I was armed, and it's never been a problem.
That's a great way to loose your license, gun and spend time in jail. Here in SC you are legally bound to notify an officer upon contact. I really don't recommend not notifying them.
 

John Canuck

New Member
thebrasilian said:
John Canuck said:
I've been pulled a few times while armed. I've never informed the officer I was armed, and it's never been a problem.
That's a great way to loose your license, gun and spend time in jail. Here in SC you are legally bound to notify an officer upon contact. I really don't recommend not notifying them.
What law in SC requires me to notify anyone that I have a gun?

Also, I haven't lived in SC very long so I was more than likely referring to another state.
 

fordnut

Active Member
The instructor of your CCW class should have told that the SC Law says...If you have a CWP, you are required to tell LEO's that info, and to present the license even if you are not carying....

The CWP tells lots of LEO's that you have been background checked and your prints are on file...

Lots of LEO's will lighten up when they find this out...

Steve
 

John Canuck

New Member
fordnut said:
The instructor of your CCW class should have told that the SC Law says...If you have a CWP, you are required to tell LEO's that info, and to present the license even if you are not carying....

The CWP tells lots of LEO's that you have been background checked and your prints are on file...

Lots of LEO's will lighten up when they find this out...

Steve

The instructor of my CWP course made mention of 23-31-215 (k) which says:

(K) A permit holder must have his permit identification card in his possession whenever he carries a concealable weapon. When carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver's license from a permit holder. A permit holder immediately must report the loss or theft of a permit identification card to SLED headquarters. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined twenty-five dollars.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t23c031.php

Is this what you are referring to?
 

fiundagner

New Member
stop and frisk n. a law enforcement officer's search for a weapon confined to a suspect's outer clothing when either a bulge in the clothing or the outline of the weapon is visible. The search is commonly called a "pat down," and any further search requires either a search warrant or "probable cause" to believe the suspect will commit or has committed a crime (including carrying a concealed weapon, which itself is a crime). The limited right to "stop and frisk" is intended to halt the practice of random searches of people in hopes of finding evidence of criminal activity or merely for purposes of intimidation, particularly of minorities.

By identifying yourself as carrying a concealed weapon (the permit could have been a forgery. You'd have to be an idiot to do so, but?), you gave the officer probable cause to carry the search further than a mere ?frisking?. Imperfectly legal, highly controversial, but within the officers power as an interpretation of TERRY V. OHIO, 392 U.S. 1, 88 S. Ct. 1868, 20 L. Ed. 2d 889. I don?t agree with it, I think it gives police an excuse to violate our amendments, but it is at least semi-legal.

more information can be found here

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... +and+Frisk
 

C_Carson

New Member
Bob Ouellette said:
Frost, if he was that paranoid, I have no idea why he would put his arms through a vehicle window, across someone's body and under their arms to retrieve a weapon. Had I been anyone other than the law abiding citizen I am, that would be the perfect opportunity to attack the officer and have an advantage.
Not to mention un-necessary handling of a firearm by an unknown person increases the risk of a ND.

I was pulled over another time and the deputy asked if I would place it in the bed of my truck and I did. However, to search my car for a machine gun or anything else, after I've been compliant and told the officer everything that I had and its location, is completely out of line and a violation of my rights.
I'm not a lawyer, but after you told him what you had and where it was, it sounds like implied consent, so to him you waived your 4th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure.

Document the incident and talk to his superiors.
 

Bob Ouellette

New Member
C_Carson said:
Bob Ouellette said:
Frost, if he was that paranoid, I have no idea why he would put his arms through a vehicle window, across someone's body and under their arms to retrieve a weapon. Had I been anyone other than the law abiding citizen I am, that would be the perfect opportunity to attack the officer and have an advantage.
Not to mention un-necessary handling of a firearm by an unknown person increases the risk of a ND.
I'd hate to be shot by the police with my own gun. That would put a real pile of poop on my day.

I was pulled over another time and the deputy asked if I would place it in the bed of my truck and I did. However, to search my car for a machine gun or anything else, after I've been compliant and told the officer everything that I had and its location, is completely out of line and a violation of my rights.
I'm not a lawyer, but after you told him what you had and where it was, it sounds like implied consent, so to him you waived your 4th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure.

Document the incident and talk to his superiors.
I'm still trying to find out who it was that pulled me over. I will try not to let this further taint my view of the Charleston Police Department, but their record with me is bad and getting worse.

fiundagner said:
stop and frisk n. a law enforcement officer's search for a weapon confined to a suspect's outer clothing when either a bulge in the clothing or the outline of the weapon is visible. The search is commonly called a "pat down," and any further search requires either a search warrant or "probable cause" to believe the suspect will commit or has committed a crime (including carrying a concealed weapon, which itself is a crime). The limited right to "stop and frisk" is intended to halt the practice of random searches of people in hopes of finding evidence of criminal activity or merely for purposes of intimidation, particularly of minorities.

By identifying yourself as carrying a concealed weapon (the permit could have been a forgery. You'd have to be an idiot to do so, but?), you gave the officer probable cause to carry the search further than a mere ?frisking?. Imperfectly legal, highly controversial, but within the officers power as an interpretation of TERRY V. OHIO, 392 U.S. 1, 88 S. Ct. 1868, 20 L. Ed. 2d 889. I don?t agree with it, I think it gives police an excuse to violate our amendments, but it is at least semi-legal.
Does that include concealed weapon permit holders? I think the lesson I've learned is that I'll inform any officers that pull me over for whatever reason that I am a concealed weapons permit holder and leave it at that.
 
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