Is this accesory legal on an AR pistol???

Frost

Active Member
We all know that vertical fore grips are not legal on pistols.
Is the accessory which in effect turns the magwell into a foregrip legal on a pistol ?

 

fordnut

Active Member
Good Question....On AR-15, you can go look at a lot of AR pistols. Some of them have the Magpul triangle shaped front handle on them. Someone ask if they were legal and one owner replied..."I haven't been arrested yet"....I think I would have to have a better answer before I put something like that on my pistol....

Steve
 

Frost

Active Member
It may be on the magwell which is part of the receiver however it is intended for use by the off hand and is used in a vertical fashion.
The Magpul AFG is not used in a vertical fashion although it is used by your off hand.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/ ... -grip.html


Wiki says;
In May 1993, in response to legal action brought by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), the South Carolina District Court's finding of fact concluded that a pistol modified with the addition of vertical fore grips was still a pistol and not an any other weapon device.[1] Following this, the ATF dropped their charges and the case was not tried; as such no precedent was set.

In an open letter sent to Federal Firearms Licensees in April 2006, the ATF stated their interpretation of the law; that installing a vertical forward grip on a handgun is the same as manufacturing an Any Other Weapon (AOW) category firearm and subject to registration and taxation, with significant penalties for manufacturing or possessing such an unregistered weapon

 

Clicker

Member
Who cares about the legality of that thing cause it's fugly! Would you really put one on your gun Frost?

I'm hafta put a couple a tables 'tween you and me at the range from now on!!!

Truth be told my buddy Jeff has one on his 16 and it does feel comfy, just looks like s#%t.
 

Frost

Active Member
Clicker
Seeing as how I don't have an AR pistol it's kind of a moot point.
I agree it's kind of goofy looking as though it was made for someone who could not reach a real vertical foregrip.
Vertical foregrips on pistols is just kind of a sore point with me.
I tracked down and refinished a Romanian vertical foregrip for my AK pistol before I knew I could not have it on there.
Not wanting to spend a few years at Club Fed I took it off and now it is languishing in a parts box.
 
One of the prevailing forms of instruction on how to use the AR type rifle is for the support hand to grasp the front of the magazine well and pull the weapon into your firing shoulder to steady the weapon.

The other extreme is to extend your support hand as far as it will go and to grip the front of the weapon with a fully extended arm, hence the Angled Fore Grip (AFG) being manufactured to facilitate a more comfortable grip.

Most people with little, informal or zero training prefer a looser grip on the weapon with their support hand and will grasp the forend of the weapon in different locations depending upon their mood or pure chance when they raise the weapon.
 

Pops

Administrator
I fail to see why a vertical foregrip should be illegal in the first place.
It only makes the weapon safer to shoot.

At one time it was illegal to have a lock blade folding knife in South Carolina because many bikers and other criminal types had them.
It also used to be illegal to have a tatoo parlor in South Carolina because illegal activity occured in them.

To take this line of thought to the next step the Feds should shut down the white house and the federal government in general since so much illegal activity takes place there. :lol:

Pops
 
Pursuant to the US Constitution the entirety of the 1934 National Firearms Act, 1968 Gun Control Act and 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act are 100% illegal and anyone that enforces them is subverting Constitutional Law.

I was just relaying what the fascist anti-American BATFE GeStaPo have stated concerning their Draconian laws and their arbitrary interpretation of how best to destroy America.
 

gfmakarov

New Member
The rulings on Vertical fore grips on AR or other pistols has changed in the last few weeks, within certain guidelines, it can be done.

See ATF Ruling letter at http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

As I understand it, it works like this, the "firearm" (they are no longer classified as a pistol) must be 26" or more OAL (not including removable flash hiders, etc), it can not have a stock or place to attach one (AR's must have a pistol buffer tube), and at no time can it be carried in a Concealed manor. (define that one will ya!)

So AR "other weapon" with standard pistol buffer tube, 11.5" barrel works out to 26.5" OAL, = ok for Vert grip. same weapon with 10.5" barrel, = AOW and $200 tax stamp.
Same would apply to AK pistols, Pistol rear Trunion and a barrel long enough to bring it over the magic 26" OAL and you are ok.
Another weapon would be the Thompson 1927 Semi Auto pistols, (A5 model I think it is) and others I'm sure.
http://www.icollector.com/Auto-Ordnance ... e_i9753234

Also the ruling on Vertical grips has been tested in SC court in the past, and the BATFE case Failed. See http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/us_v_davis2.txt paragraphs 25- 27

NOTE: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, information above offered for Fair Use, and informational purposes, feel free to research the subject on your own and consult a Lawyer, MD or other professional help as you see fit.

-George
 

Red Hat

New Member
Thanks for the links. I read through it but need time to digest all the lingo. If i'm reading it correctly shotguns can have barrels less than 18" and pistols can have Vertical fore grips.
 

gfmakarov

New Member
[quote="Red Hat" If i'm reading it correctly shotguns can have barrels less than 18" and pistols can have Vertical fore grips.[/quote]


If you are reffering to paragraph 28 in the U.S. v. Davis, case, according to the original indictment that is regarding a T/C Contender.

-George
 

Tigerstripe

Active Member
arent AOWs a $5 tax?
as for carry, i know there is a length limit, acording to the class i took.
what was it? 10.5? 11.5?
 
Tigerstripe said:
arent AOWs a $5 tax?
as for carry, i know there is a length limit, acording to the class i took.
what was it? 10.5? 11.5?
$5 tax to transfer an already-registered AOW

$200 tax to manufacture

Most people turn their Title I guns into Short Barreled Shotguns or Short Barreled Rifles since the fee for AOW and SBS/SBR is identical. The only difference is that with an SBR/SBS you can put on a buttstock whenever you like. With an AOW you cannot.

My SBS Remington 870 spends 3/4 of it's year without a buttstock and only wears a pistol grip. Periodically I feel like having a buttstock on it and swap. If I had registered it as an AOW instead of SBS then I would be committing a felony.
 
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