Ccw ammo

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armaborealis

New Member
I feel that as long as you go with a major manufacturer's premium defensive load you can't be too far off the mark. Shot placement and follow up shots are key anyways because all pistols have poor terminal ballistics (compared to long arms).

I don't "rotate" carry mags but I do have a set of mags which are used ONLY for carry. They don't get banged around in classes, dropped during reload drills, etc.

I rotate carry ammo every year or three, but don't feel too strongly about the need to do so.
 
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waldengr

New Member
rotarymike said:
waldengr said:
thanx, 'preciate the full response. although i have family in SC, i live in a state (un-named, to protect the idiots) where a major metro PD/DA have city ordinances that allow you to raise the "affirmative defense" when arrested for concealed carry (CC is permited by state law) which allows a permit holder to be stopped for a traffic violation, and arrested for carrying a weapon when that person attempts to inform the officer for saftey assurance.
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Dude, that sucks. You need to move, if nothing else because that municipality is basically advertising its citizens to the drug gangs and theft rings as an open market.

I would like to know as well. I travel up the coast a lot, as I have family in MD, DE and PA. Obviously I don't CC in MD, but traveling through with gun unloaded in glove box has never been a problem when I've been stopped.

I would wonder that the state laws do not trump local laws, as in SC (and everywhere else - there is a pecking order to the law, and if one higher specifically allows something, then usually the lower laws are null).
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not an east coast state. just be sure wherever you travel you are completely aware of the laws in each municipality. in the situation mentioned, state law does provide for CCW, but says nothing about restricting municipals from making firearm discharge a chargeable offense. so, you can carry, but you cannot use (well, you can but at great risk). and moving to texas is out because of the heat, humidity and poisionous air caused by an epa-directed gasoline formula that is an acknowledged cancer agent and respiratory system stress. and even texas is getting a bit squishy on gun laws. the attorney was right to note that the delimma is judged by 12 or carried by six. protect your situation in "first to seceed" !!
 
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dhayden81

New Member
I have 2 primary CCW, my M&P 40c with Critical duty 165gr flex lock and my 29 with 220 gr Buffalo bore JHP. It all depends on where I am going and what I am doing! My back up is a TCP with 90gr flex lock.
 
rotarymike

rotarymike

Member
Neat!

And here I just liked HSTs because of the pretty petals.

I did expect more of the Winchester Rangers, but maybe they were not the SXTs. He said they were not the Ranger-Ts.

(and thanks for posting the link).
 
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bigfutz

Active Member
bigfutz said:
Parhams0508 said:
This guy as twenty videos where he tests 9mm and .380 ACP out of 3" pistols. Absolutely phenomenal work.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... -w4Yozc27i
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Our own Precision One is the .380 winner! Congratulations P1!
http://youtu.be/GNtPHYwcDts
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I guess the message got out, as on the P-1 web site the following message is posted:
*****PLEASE NOTE AS OF 4/29/14 WE RECEIVED A MESSAGE THAT THE 380 90GR HP/XTP WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE IN MAY DUE TO COMPONENT DELAYS. OUR NEW ESTIMATED TIME FOR AVAILABILITY IS JULY 2014. SORRY!*****
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waldengr

New Member
melloyello said:
Parhams0508 said:
This guy as twenty videos where he tests 9mm and .380 ACP out of 3" pistols. Absolutely phenomenal work.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... -w4Yozc27i
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Those were outstanding videos.
I am disappointed with Critical Duty for my CCW ammo.
Looks like Federal HST is the clear winner and Critical Defense a second.
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have another look; lehigh extreme penetrator now reigns (the 9mm verison over-penetrates, a bunch)
 
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Liquid__Mirage

New Member
I currently carry a S&W 9 Shield, and I've recently switched to Hornady TAP +P 124 grain, I haven't had time to throw any lead down range since my switch. The wife carries a bodyguard .380 and she's using critical defense rounds. I used critical defense in my 9 for a long time and when shooting from personal experience, I found the critical defense to expand quickly, which helps avoid over penetration and creates a substantial wound cavity over a few various hollow points in my random personal non expert testing,
 
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Two Nickels

New Member
rotarymike said:
Not really. Solicitors are people too as imperfect as anyone, and many get caught up in the 'everyone else is a criminal, we just have to catch them' mentality. Also, convictions get promotions and some measure of job security. It is, essentially, their job to be dicks to people.

BUT.

The following is just commentary, not legal advice. Some of it is sarcastic; much is nonetheless true.

SC's (and most other states that have it) Castle Doctrine and the extension provided by Stand Your Ground laws provide that if it is a defensive shooting under those laws, there is no criminal or civil liability. So the family cannot sue you for wrongful death unless they can prove you did something so totally egregious as to be tatamount to intentional reckless homicide. Like, the BG has a gun and you shoot him with an RPG. In your living room. From 10 feet (technical accuracy of that scenario be damned). Or cracky has more entry wounds in his back than his front.

The police on the scene will be the ones who initially determine whether to charge you. The prosecutor will decide if she has enough to convict. They may try to coerce or trick a confession out of you that you weren't acting in self defense against an imminent deadly (or GBH) threat. This is why, after an incident, when the cops show up, just say 'I want to talk to my lawyer first'. AND NOTHING ELSE. Maybe vomit. Nice guys don't like killing other people so that is a typical reaction. Hardened thugs don't care. The cops will be watching your every reaction; none at all is as telling as losing it.

Self-defense is an affirmative defense. That is, if the solicitor decides to indict you, your defense will allege self-defense. Then the state has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that it wasn't self-defense. This is why George Zimmerman essentially got off, it didn't even get to the point of "was it murder" or not. This is all before they have to prove, again beyond a reasonable doubt, that you committed murder/manslaughter/negligent homicide /etc.

Thing is, the cops do this evaluation all the time. So do the prosecutors. When you've got a guy in the Wal-Mart parking lot with his family, that just bought something, with a job and generally not a felon, who shoots another guy with multiple meth arrests and tox screen comes back for something... I don't have to be omniscient to see that as legitimate self-defense. So the first guy never gets charged. That's why you don't read about it.

While the thought that you have to live through the experience to be able to defend yourself (better to be judged by twelve than carried by six), if you're defending your family you need to be able to defend them again afterwards. Bad guys aren't a one-time thing, and if you cap a gang member trying to rape your daughter, you need to be there for the war that's about to start to keep defending her.

Point of fact about ammo choice: Police officers don't carry ammo to kill people with. They are not soldiers, no matter how much some would like to believe so. They carry arms and ammo to defend themselves and others, and to stop dangerous people from escaping to endanger others. To that end, their arms are chosen for reliability and ability to stop a man efficiently without overuse of force. And budget/politics/kickbacks but that typically says more about the firearm than the ammo. When I carry a gun (now), CCW or otherwise, I do not intend to kill people with it. I intend to use it as a last resort to stop a bad guy from doing a bad thing. When he stops doing the bad thing, I stop shooting. Anything more *is* murder, in the eyes of the law. So using the same armaments as the police, who are carrying for the same reason, is a very powerful argument against excessive force or wrongful death lawsuits and/or criminal charges. Then again, most of the states that allow civil liability after a self-defense shooting are so anti-gun that you kinda should expect that goatrope.

OTOH, shooting someone with your concealed carry Glock 18 might get you charged almost anywhere.

Here's a non-handgun scenario: Home invasion. Grandpa shoots the guy as he comes through the door, kills him. Scenario A: grandpa uses two rounds from his M1A-Socom 16 kitted all out with laser, red dot, rails everywhere, multiple mag pouches on the rifle, and bayonet. Scenario B: grandpa hits him twice with a Remington 700. Same caliber, same shot count, same effect. Who are the cops going to say is using self-defense, and who is 'intentionally killing another person'? You and I know that grandpa probably just grabbed what was closest and readiest. But appearances can damn you before you get a chance to explain yourself in any meaningful way.

TL;DR version: Don't say anything other than to demand a lawyer. Don't shoot someone after they stop being a threat. Use what police agencies use; if nothing else, it is designed to do the task you're asking of it.

Situational awareness is 99% of self-defense.
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Almost 7 years later I just read this and it is still extremely good advise and has me making some adjustments. Thank you.
 
rotarymike

rotarymike

Member
Thanks for the kind words. I re-read what I wrote back then, and I still stand by all of it. Thankfully in 7 years I've not had to test it, even though I've expanded my carry options some. M&P Shield 9, M&P9L with 124g HSTs and (as of last week) S&W .380 bodyguard with P1 or Lehigh when I can get any ammo at all for it. That's OK, shorts weather for me isn't until May.

Anecdotal story - my neighborhood is pretty safe but anywhere can have issues. We had some break-ins a few years back. One night I was working in the (closed) garage when our house entry alarm went off. Wife and kid were out of town, didn't hear the door open so that meant glass breakage.

The only gun that I had in the garage that wasn't in pieces was a Chinese Type 53 (short Mosin Nagant). So yes I cleared the house with 7.62x54R AP ammo. Thankfully a false alarm (the glass break sensors just *hate* cats) but had I needed to engage a bad guy, I would have been OK legally with what is clearly overkill for personal defense. Castle Doctrine, all my other serviceable arms were in the safe, etc. etc. Situation means a lot for the legality of any shooting.

Good example of situational consequences - the Pinkerton security guard that shot the biker dude that bear-sprayed him and his ward. IMHO a good shoot, legally, but he still sits in jail AFAIK. If anyone has followup articles about that guy, I'd love to see them.
 
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