CC at the children's museum?

thebrasilian

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We took my daughter the the children's museum in Columbia this week and had a very confusing moment. I hope a LEO or a CWP instructor could answer this.

I carry almost every where I go. When we got up to the door I noticed that there were no "no weapons" signs on the door. But my wife pointed the the bottom of the door that said the museum was a gun free zone and stated no weapons allowed. I walked back to my car and secured my weapon.

My question is: Does this verbiage really prevents me from carrying within there walls?

Another thought. Could we get a CWP section on the forum?
 

Frost

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I can't answer your question about carry but I can about a forum section.
If enough people want a section devoted to CCW absolutely.
This forum is about what y'all want.
 

Schultz

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As long as there is a sign that can be seen weather it's a no weapons sign or a gun free zone sign which is more or less the same thing you can't carry in that establishment.
 

Low Branch

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From the Fox News 1/2 hour News Hour...Gun Free Zones
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8[/youtube]
 

thebrasilian

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Schultz said:
As long as there is a sign that can be seen weather it's a no weapons sign or a gun free zone sign which is more or less the same thing you can't carry in that establishment.
I don't believe that's true:

(M) A permit issued pursuant to this section does not authorize a permit holder to carry a concealable weapon into a:

(1) police, sheriff, or highway patrol station or any other law enforcement office or facility;

(2) detention facility, prison, or jail or any other correctional facility or office;

(3) courthouse or courtroom;

(4) polling place on election days;

(5) office of or the business meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special purpose district;

(6) school or college athletic event not related to firearms;

(7) daycare facility or pre school facility;

(8) place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law;

(9) church or other established religious sanctuary unless express permission is given by the appropriate church official or governing body; or

(10) hospital, medical clinic, doctor?s office, or any other facility where medical services or procedures are performed unless expressly authorized by the employer.
A person who wilfully violates a provision of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.
Nothing contained herein may be construed to alter or affect the provisions of Sections 10 11 320, 16 23 420, 16 23 430, 16 23 465, 44 23 1080, 44 52 165, 50 9 830, and 51 3 145.

Gun free zone is not where in the statute and there is a legal description on what the size, shape, colors, text...

Personally...I think this is a non enforceable statement on there doors.
 

Red Hat

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Just any sign won't work. It must meet the requirements of the law or not enforceable. Look under (B) The law is specific. The word MUST is a directive. If it fails to meet any of the criteria the the sign is not valid. If for some reason someone sees you carrying all they can do is ask you to leave. There are several places around me like banks, some businesses and a flea market that has signs, however they don't meet the requirements required by law. I carry there all the time. The only legal enforceable sign in SC is described below.

http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1. ... nuID=CWP#6
SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.

(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.

(B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:

(1) clearly visible from outside the building;

(2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;

(3) contain the words ?NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED? in black one inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal;

(5) a diameter of a circle; and

(6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building?s entrance door.

(C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:

(1) thirty six inches wide by forty eight inches tall in size;

(2) contain the words ?NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED? in black three inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;

(4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety six inches above the ground;

(5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.
 

thebrasilian

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I guess the next question to ask is how does SC define a gun free zone and does it have any legal meaning?
 

Red Hat

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thebrasilian said:
I guess the next question to ask is how does SC define a gun free zone and does it have any legal meaning?
There's nothing in the law that refers to a 'gun free zone' so there is no legal meaning. The signs requirements are specific and is taught in CWP classes.
 

BrandonPettit

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RedHat hit the nail on the head. The law clearly illustrates the specific signage that's recognized by the state of SC. Any sign other than EXACTLY what's described in the law is not legal and the facility can not prosecute if they somehow see you have a gun, only ask you to leave. Please go to the SLED website and familiarize yourself with the CCW laws, it'll help clear up alot of questions.
 

Schultz

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I'm familiar with those rules thebrasilian however according to a sheriff friend they are starting to enforce the gun free zone the same as no weapons allowed, Now weather the legalities are similar that I'm not sure of. With that being said personally if i see any signage against regardless of size even I won't carry in that establishment nor will I bother going in it at all which is usually the case.
 

Red Hat

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Schultz said:
I'm familiar with those rules thebrasilian however according to a sheriff friend they are starting to enforce the gun free zone the same as no weapons allowed, Now weather the legalities are similar that I'm not sure of. With that being said personally if i see any signage against regardless of size even I won't carry in that establishment nor will I bother going in it at all which is usually the case.

If they their to enforce their version of the law then they will be in a lot of trouble. SC has a law against that. If the sign doesn't meet the requirements it's like having no sign at all and I like a lot of others that carry ignore them.

LOCAL REGULATIONS

SECTION 23-31-510. Prohibition against regulation of certain matters.

No governing body of any county, municipality, or other political subdivision in this State may enact or promulgate any regulation or ordinance which regulates or attempts to regulate the transfer, ownership, possession, carrying, or transportation of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, or any combination of these things.
 

Schultz

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Red Hat said:
If they their to enforce their version of the law then they will be in a lot of trouble. SC has a law against that. If the sign doesn't meet the requirements it's like having no sign at all and I like a lot of others that carry ignore them.
I think their problem lies with business owners that think posting a gun free zone is good enough. Next time i talk to him I'll ask more in detail about it.
 

Hamman

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Red Hat said:
Just any sign won't work. It must meet the requirements of the law or not enforceable. Look under (B) The law is specific. The word MUST is a directive. If it fails to meet any of the criteria the the sign is not valid. If for some reason someone sees you carrying all they can do is ask you to leave. There are several places around me like banks, some businesses and a flea market that has signs, however they don't meet the requirements required by law. I carry there all the time. The only legal enforceable sign in SC is described below.

http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1. ... nuID=CWP#6
SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.

(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.

(B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:

(1) clearly visible from outside the building;

(2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;

(3) contain the words ?NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED? in black one inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal;

(5) a diameter of a circle; and

(6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building?s entrance door.

(C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:

(1) thirty six inches wide by forty eight inches tall in size;

(2) contain the words ?NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED? in black three inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;

(4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety six inches above the ground;

(5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.
+1 The instructor of the CWP class that I attended covered this in detail. I also agree with Schultz in respect to if I see that sign I will not grace that property with my presence.
 

thebrasilian

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Just to clarify mine CWP class did discuss this too. But things change and you may not always catch it.
 

Red Hat

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thebrasilian said:
Just to clarify mine CWP class did discuss this too. But things change and you may not always catch it.
That's why you have to keep on top of changes in the law. So far the changes have been to the good for us!
 

thebrasilian

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I'm also a GrassRoots member. But I hat the yahoo forum format and can't figure out how to stop all the email updates.

I am really hoping for the restaurant carry as long as you don't sit at the bar.
 

Red Hat

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I tried the Yahoo forum but didn't like the format so I quit going there. I fine that Grassroots is a little slow in getting out information. I've found that the NRA ILA updates are the best on new information. http://www.nraila.org Also it's nice to see what other states are doing. One forum that I frequent a lot is USA Carry. We have a very active SC forum. http://www.usacarry.com
 

Range Master

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SC State Law reads in part....
SECTION 16-23-420. Possession of firearm on school property; concealed weapons.
(A) It is unlawful for a person to possess a firearm of any kind on any premises or property owned, operated, or controlled by a private or public school, college, university, technical college, other post-secondary institution, or in any publicly owned building without the express permission of the authorities in charge of the premises or property.

I see nothing on the Childrens Museum website to indicate it would be defined as a Publicly Owned Building, but it was a thought worth sharing.
When in doubt, don't.
 
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