A two part question

[fiundagner]

SHTF Part 1 - How far is it going to fall?

When SHTF just how bad is it going to be? Is it going to be the great recessions if the 2000?s? Is it going to be the stagflation of the 70?s? Is it going to be the great depression of the 20?s? Is going to be down to black powder and alcohol? ( http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/filk/blkpowdr.html ). Are we talking about collapse to preindustrial levels? Middle ages renaissance? Rome after the fall of the empire? The Greek empire of warring city states? Or all the way down to stone age?

SHTF Part 2 - How are we going to rebuild?

We are on this forum because we are talking about how to survive SHTF. Let us assume that we are well enough prepared to survive the aftermath. What next? It about more than just surviving, isn?t it. Do you want your children to grow up just surviving? What about their children. Even if we don?t realize it we currently live in something approaching a golden age, and have for decades.

So after it all falls down, and you live through it, what?s next. Are you prepared to rediscover everything from basic biology to physics? Algebra, geometry, geology, chemistry, basic government? What are your thoughts, concerns, and plans, if any?

 

[fordnut]

My plan is simple...I am just going to bend over, placing my head between my knees, and, kiss my ass good-bye...

Seriously though...You have raised some very good questions. I am glad I have no childeren to pass this world onto...

We have made enough of a mess of the world, who knows what is next....

I really don't look for Zombie's to attack...but, the real truth scares me more that Zobmie's.Hell, you can just shoot Zombie's...The real answers are way harder to deal with...

Now I have a headache...I must go lay down...

Steve

 

[thebrasilian]

We are talking about several possibilities at our house. One is the bad economy. The other, as in what I heard one of the triggers in the bill to save our economy, is the possibility for a 50% cut in the military budget. We do have lots of other topics we talk about from a break in to natural disaster.

The first is to worry about surviving with local threats to our safety. Most of the violence from the '30's was small in nature. Theft, rape, alcohal/drug ... But today outside of that type of stress crimes tend to be more violent. So we can only imagine what may come. We are just trying to plan for it.

The other is about external threats. If our military is hit with a major cut as in the bill going through congress. We might as well look to what russia was a short few year ago. We will be vulnerable to the like of China and even Iran. It's extremely hard to fight if you don't have replacement parts.

 

[Enjay]

I think the max we'd collapse to is a preindustrial level if for no other reason than we have plenty of old tech surviving that we could turn to. Granted we probably couldn't reproduce it right away, but there is a lot out there for use.

I can't really say what I'd do about rebuilding society because it would be very dependent on what caused to collapse in the first place, and how wide spread was it. US? North America? Global?
Assuming it was at least North America I'm going to say I'd rely heavily upon books as instruction manuals for figuring out how to do things that I didn't already know how to do without electricity and other modern conveniences.

 

[fiundagner]

If I haven?t made at least one person brain pop I don?t feel like I?ve done everything I can in a day.

I have to assume that if we are down to hardcore urban camping post SHTF then we are looking at an effective worldwide collapse. Lets us be at least semi honest. Even in the aftermath of Katrina, despite all the horror stories and rumor mongering going around, most people had someplace to sleep safely and enough to eat that they didn?t starve. They didn?t have mass rape at the superdome (or if they did it was so well covered up that it rivals the JFK assassination theories). The levies were not intentionally demolished (I?ve heard a really fun story behind why they did fail, but that?s a different point). Cops did go door to seize weapons, but that is hopefully a thing of the past ( http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=191 ).

The 20?s were bad, very bad, for large portions of the US. But it was recoverable. And that has been about as close to actual collapse as the United States has ever been. But that was also a different time. You could build what you needed if you had the tools. You didn?t have to rely on microchips to run your car, on genetically hybridized seeds to grow your food, on clothes made in china to wear.

If we are genuinely concerned with hardcore urban camping, then I have to assume that it is more than a local disaster such as a hurricane or earthquake. Collapse of local government happens on a regular basis (what do you think a riot is?). Collapse of a regional government is uncommon, but it happens (see Hurricane Katrina). Collapse of national governments in developed nations is extremely rare.

Egypt recently (and we have yet to see how that will play out) had such a collapse, and while horror stories abound, they largely do not have mass deaths, bodies rotting in the street, or troubles to the level that would require urban camping survival concerns.

If we have to actually be concerned with an extended period of survival (say, the rest of your life), what do you plan for? Worry about? And what comes next?

 

[Enjay]

While I agree that the tales of rapes and murders at the superdome are unsubstantiated and may be rumors, I highly doubt anyone was safe, even if they just didn't feel safe, as there was a lot of theft and intimidation.

I also think I should make a disclaimer, Fiundagner is my husband and he's well aware of the preps and plans we make.

 

[Midnight Raver]

While I agree that the tales of rapes and murders at the superdome are unsubstantiated and may be rumors, I highly doubt anyone was safe, even if they just didn't feel safe, as there was a lot of theft and intimidation.

I also think I should make a disclaimer, Fiundagner is my husband and he's well aware of the preps and plans we make.

I found the roundup/seizure of mass quantities of civilian owned firearms was extremely awful. While perhaps necessary to make things safer for relocated people at the shelters, the negligence and destruction of said firearms was a travesty. Small wonder so many people wanted to stay at home and take their chances to prevent looting and such. To see multitudes of various weaponry thrown into plastic trash barrels, only to be damaged and left to rust was heartbreaking to say the least.

On another note...

A-HA, Enjay's been baiting us with her husband's posting- only NOW she puts up her disclaimer!!!

fiundagner, welcome to the Forum- as for you Enjay, you played us like a fiddle! :lol:

 

[Enjay]

I did? I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention. I was waiting for him to introduce himself in the newbie forum but he has yet to get around to it, although he's been threatening to be a huge smart aleck when he does. :roll:

 

[Midnight Raver]

I did? I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention.

C'mon, no need to apologize- it was a funny time for a disclaimer. Besides, you fooled us by giving us that disarming smile all the while(see avatar).

:lol:

 

[Frost]

Never doubt that the gubbermint can take away guns.
Just look at Australia.

 

[Midnight Raver]

Never doubt that the gubbermint can take away guns.
Just look at Australia.

And the UK.

 

[Landy]

The rape and murders in the Dome during Katrina may have happened.
Do you remember when Fla had such a bad year with all the hurricanes and thousands were without power many years ago.
Bet no one heard about the gangs that targeted anyone with a generator. They would send out members to listen at night. Then bust in kill, rape then strip the place and leave nothing. Not one word in the news. I just happen to know a few that really(LEO) know from first hand. So don't always discount what you don't hear in the msm. :shock: :shock:

 

[qwikshot]

All I can say is, if things go south, "get out of the City". Thats where the mobs are going to form. Just look at what the underlings are doing to London.
Suburbs should form "armed" official neighborhood watches made up of free residents "second ammendment type folks".
Those of us further out will probably will not see any of the bad stuff unless theres a total meltdown that lasts for more than a week.
There are so many scenarios of what could cause destabalization. You can't think of them all.
Start with the basics. Food, water, shelter, weapons, and mobile comunication.
I like the line Ben Franklin said:
"Failing to prepare, is preparing to fail"